Re: Ssh "security hole": proposed fix

[David Mazieres <mazieres@pa.dec.com>]

Well, here is the proposed new ssh protocol as I understand it.

  A -> B: A
  
  B -> A: PKb, PKsb, Cb

    session_id := {PKb, PKsb, Cb}_MD5
  
  A -> B: Cb, {{session_id XOR Kab}_PKsb}_PKb        (*)
  A -> B: {A}_Kab
  A -> B: {PKa}_Kab
  
  B -> A: {{Nb}_PKa}_Kab
  
  A -> B: {{Nb, session_id}_MD5}_Kab

It does seem to solve the two problems I pointed out.  However, I am
troubled by how complicated the protocol is, and how much encryption
is going on.  One of the principles I have heard stated says that more
encryption does not mean more security.  A good example of that seems
be the session key PKsb above.

In line (*) of the protocol, you say the session key (or now I guess
really session_id XOR Kab) is encrypted first with whichever of Kb,
Ksb has the larger modulus.  Under normal circumstances (the ones
depicted above), the first encryption will be with PKsb.  However, if
ever PKb were to come first, then PKsb would be completely vulnerable
to a "man in the middle" attack, and thus would be completely useless.

Wouldn't it make sense to simplify the protocol significantly, so as
to make it easier to understand and easier for us to convince
ourselves of its robustness?  What about something like what follows
this message?

To come up with the protocol I appended, I took your protocol and
stuck the the full context of each message into the message itself, so
that none of the previous problems could occur.  Then I eliminated all
complications like double encryption and challenges that did not add
to the security of the protocol.  Now granted I'm no authentication
expert and could easily have made a mistake here, but at least it will
be easier to catch because the protocol is simpler.  Who know what the
implications of that XOR really are?

David


PREAMBLE:

(1)  A -> B: A

(2)  B -> A: Cb, PKsb, PKb

(3)  A -> B: {Kab}_PKsb, {A, B, Cb}_Kab

(4)  B -> A: {{A, B, Cb, Kab, PKsb}_SKb}_Kab


SSH_AUTH_RHOSTS:

(5)  A -> B:  0

SSH_AUTH_RHOSTS_RSA:
SSH_AUTH_RSA:

(5)  A -> B: {{A, B, Cb, Kab}_SKa, PKa}_Kab

SSH_AUTH_PASSWORD:

(5)  A -> B: {Ka}_Kab