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Re: Massey, CEO of Compuserve, on Internet
Peter D. Junger writes:
8< [snip]
>One should also notice that Bavaria is only one state in the German
>Federal Republic; this case is more like Texas investigating
>Compuserve than the United States federal government investigating
>Compuserve. Bavaria is the stronghold of what can properly be called
>the (Catholic) Religious Right in Germany. It should also be noticed
>that in general German publications and television seem to be less
>constrained in publishing materials that in the United States would be
>called ``indecent'' by some than are United States publications and
>broadcasters.
>
Peter has made some rather astute and accurate observations.
(I particularly liked his analogy of Bavaria & Texas. From my
experience, I would say that Bavaria is the Texas of Germany.)
While the Computserve incident in Germany may provoke outrage here
& across the Internet, given the culture and other factors, the
incident itself was rather inevitable (really). After having lived
in Munich & Stuttgart, I'm just surprised it took so long to happen.
(Then again, the wheels of bureaucracy do spin slowly). 8^) I'm
not saying I agree with their actions, but I think I do understand
the mentality behind the actions.
I would venture to guess that the Bavarian State Police were trying
to enforce the JugendSchutzGesetz (Protection of Minors Law). These
laws are posted in every restaurant, bar, etc. As indicated by its
title, the law basically serves to protect minors from the evils of
the adult world. It spells out what ages a person has to be to drink
beer, hard liquor, etc, and covers curfews and other similar topics
which serve to protect the youth.
The Compuserve censorship may be the result of an interpretation or
enhancement of the JSG - in that because Compuserve really has no way
of knowing the age of individuals who have access to pornographic
materials, it is not capable of fully implementing the JSG. (Although
how this differs from cable TV (which shows porno movies and can't
controll who sees them is beyond me).
Without commenting on the actions of the Bavarian State Police or
Compuserve, I think that perhaps we are applying our standards to
an incident in another culture - without viewing it in the context
of that culture or country. (In other words, comparing apples and
oranges.)
FWIW, there are a few differences between the USA and Germany which
are related to the Compuserve incident and which may help to understand
why the police performed their actions. I am not saying I agree with
their actions, only that I think I understand the mentality behind the
actions. Anyway, here are a few differences:
1) Germans (and foreigners who live/work there) enjoy fewer freedoms
than we do - including freedom of speech, press, assembly, movement,
etc.
2) The legal system is different than in the USA. I'm not a lawyer,
but my impressions were that the police had far more liberties
with what they (legally) can do than do our counterparts here or
in other countries. The OJ fiasco probably couldn't have happened
in Germany (and he probably also wouldn't have gotten off).
3) There is no real separation of Church & State like we have here in
the USA. As a result, the impact of the Catholic & Lutheran churches
on the German legal system & government is significant. It has also
led the the government subsidizing (ie - providing public funds to)
the churches.
FWIW, the German government (like every other government on the planet)
is ill-equiped to handle something like the Internet and its impact on
the social & legal systems of that country.
FWIW, the above is my opinion based on having lived there for over 9
years.
Best Regards,
Frank
>--
>Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH
>Internet: [email protected] [email protected]
PS - The rest of this mail contains an elaboration of the points mentioned
earlier. They were separated from the summarized info mentioned above
for those who are short on time or have no interest in the long version.
PPS - Four really neat things about Germany are the BDSG (Privacy Act), the
mandatory (by law) 6-weeks paid vacation for all full-time employees,
their sausages, and skiing. (Their sausages are really great. You
might even say they're the best of the wurst. The skiing can be flakey
on occasion, though.) 8^) 8^) 8^)
PPPS - Have a Happy & Prosperous New Year! 8^)
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The following is an elaboration of the above differences, based on
my observations while I was there. I'm not taking a stand one way
or another on these differences in this mail, just indicating what
they are.
1) Germans (and foreigners who live/work there) enjoy fewer freedoms
than we do. A few examples:
- it is mandatory (ie - a law) that citizens & foreigners register
their domicile address with the police. (When you move, you have
to unregister with the police in your old city, & register with
them in the new city).
- it is not trivial to obtain a permit for a weapon (or obtain a
hunting license).
- it is against the law to monitor police & government frequencies
- until 1984/85), the radio & TV media were a monopoly of the State
(or government). Commercial (ie - non-government owned) radio &
TV stations didn't exist until then.
- the freedom of speech is more restricted than here. Use of the
swastika symbol is prohibited by law. Groups attempting to deny
the abuses of WW II or promoting the rhetoric of the Hitler regime
are outlawed.
- all demonstrations must be registered (and approved) by the police
before they can ocur.
- mandatory store closings (general). Most stores are open 'til 6pm
on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday. They stay open late
('til 8:30pm) on Thursdays. Saturdays, the stores are open 'til
2pm unless it is the first Saturday of the month (& then 'til 5pm).
- all TVs, radios have to be registered with the BundesPost (and you
will be charged a fee). The BundesPost uses vans with have the
ability to detect which apartments have TVs (as well as which channel
the individual is watching). (I have seen the vans & have had a
brief conversation with some of the BP employees who have used this
equipment).
2) The legal system is different than in the USA. I'm not a lawyer, but
my impressions were that the police had far more liberties with what
they (legally) can do than do our counterparts here or in other countries.
On the plus side, the police are very efficient (but having access to
a nationwide databank about every person in the country helps to increase
the efficiency in catching crooks).
- One law in particular is the JugendSchutzGesetz (Protection of
Minors Law). The JSG spells out exactly what ages a person has
to be to drink beer, hard liquor, etc. (I believe it also covers
curfews, movie ratings, etc.). The Compuserve censorship may be
the result of an interpretation or enhancement of the JSG - in
that because Compuserve really has no way of knowing the age of
individuals who have access to pornographic materials, it is not
capable of fully implementing the JSG. (Although how this differs
from cable TV (which offers porno movies is beyond me).
- One thing to be admired, though, is the German Information/Data
Privacy Act (BundesDatenSchutzGesetz = BDSG). The BDSG is one
of the most stringent privacy laws in the world. Actually, it
is a shame that we don't have a law like the BDSG (with a few
minor changes). (Our Privacy Act here in the USA is a joke).
The abuses of privacy which result in the collection and
distribution of personal data here in the USA is simply
unbelievable.
- I also had the impression that in the German court system, the
burden of proof is on the accused, not the prosecution. This is
somewhat analagous to the military courts here in the USA.
3) There is no separation of Church & State like we have here in the USA.
- All persons who are subject to taxes are required to pay a Church
Tax (Kirchensteuer) of 1% of their pay to support a few of the major
churches in Germany (primarily, the Catholic, the Lutheran, and
the Jewish religious institutions). The only exemption to this is
for those who fill out an affadavit that they have formally left
their church or those whose voluntary contributions to their church
exceed 1%. BTW, the German tax laws also differentiate between
members of the 3 churches mentioned above & others.
- Major religious institutions are subsidized & receive financial
support by the government (from the Kirchensteuer), as well as
additional funding for the preservation & upkeep of historic
religious buildings, etc. I remember seeing an investigative
report on German TV which provided a list of which religious
institutions received how much money and the reason why those
funds were given to the churches by the government. I don't
remember the acutual sums involved, but they were rather large
(hundreds of millions of dollars or above, if my memory serves).
- The Catholic & Lutheran churches in particular have enormous
political clout (far more than they ever could here in the USA)
and are a force to be reckoned with. Although from my observations,
the Catholic church has more clout than the Lutheran. Their clout
has a major impact on the political & legal sytems in Germany.
An illustration of this is that one of the top two political
parties in Germany is the CDU (Christian Democratic Union).
- The ability of a church's missionaries to proselytize is heavily
regulated/restricted - particularly if they are not one of the
top three churches mentioned earlier.
- In general, the top 3 churches mentioned above are given preferential
treatment. Other denominations are generally ignored by the German
government.
In conclusion:
None of the above statements are intended to be critical of Germans
or of the German government, or anything/anyone else. These are
merely my personal observations.
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