Re: [noise] the individual and the tribe

[Deranged Mutant <wlkngowl@unix.asb.com>]

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Jean-Francois Avon (JFA Technologies, QC, Canada) wrote:

I originally said:

> > ... in the sense that
> >tribal societies are individualist.
> 
> I absolutely don't agree.  The subordination of the individual to the tribe
> is fundamental of their vision of the world.  Individualism is not about
> personnal opinions, it is about the vision of Man as an entity in itself, 
> a type of cattle that owe his service to the collectivity of the tribe.

Beware of stereotypes about "tribal culture".  The individualism in a
tribal culture is different than in western society.  In some ways the west
is way more collectivist than tribal societies... taxes, public works,
laws... even the bare minimums that would exist in libertarian societies.

Certain forms of self-expression and practices with regards to sexuality,
drug use, etc. are quite acceptable in some tribal cultures... even
encouraged over western conformism.

The use of myths with regards to nationalism and cultural purpose is actually 
a western phenomenon.  Creation myths, "how we got here" etc. stories have 
different functions in tribal socieities, and are not used as a 
rationalization of collectivism or submission to the will of the tribe.

Decision making in tribal cultures generally is often based on group 
consesus... if no consensus is reached, no decision is made.  Disagreement is 
acceptable, and in some cultures also encouraged as a sign of adulthood. In 
western collectivist societies there is decision by manufactured consent of 
the majority in an air of perpetual crisis.... a tyranny of the majority.


> 
> Crypto makes the tribe (and it's sorcerers) loose their grip... :)

Tribes aren't run by chiefs or sorcerers.  Large industrial nations are.

Rob.
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