Re: [NOISE] Re: Nazis on the Net

["E. ALLEN SMITH" <EALLENSMITH@ocelot.Rutgers.EDU>]

From: Rich Graves <llurch@networking.stanford.edu>

>E. Allen Smith actually might have written:

>>I've seen various quotes from Randy Weaver in various publications,
>>including Time and other non-right-wing ones. None of them indicated him
>>as an actual neo-Nazi or racist

>BWAHAHAHA!!!

	I assume that you are thinking I'm incorrect? Incidentally, I classify
a racist as someone who says "this race is evil and should be
killed/enslaved/tortured/whatever." Someone who says that different races
shouldn't live together is a separatist; it's only when they start having
seperate but equal being anything but equal (e.g., apartheid) that it crosses
the line into racism. Thus, I don't regard Charles Murray or Richard
Herrnstein as racist, for instance.

>Here's a URL for a *highly sympathetic* piece on Weaver that complains
>that, "I will be happier when the press stops demonizing Weaver -- in
>subtle and not so subtle ways -- in news stories and editorials. He is
>referred to so consistently as "White Separatist Randall Weaver" that one
>would be forgiven for assuming that his parents gave him the first name
>"White,"  while "Separatist" was some old family name handed down from his
>maternal aunt":

>http://www.omnet.com/What-I-Think/col.09-01-95B.html

	Yes, it doesn't give any information to call him a racist... it gives
information to call him a separatist. I don't support either, but I call the
former more evil than the latter. If you thought I had claimed that Weaver
wasn't a separatist, you've misread me.

>Here are some *highly sympathetic* URLs that mention that Weaver was a
>white separatist/Aryan Nations wacko:

>http://www.scimitar.com/revolution/by_topic/firearms/enforce/rubyridge/setup.html
>http://eagle.tamu.edu/~carlp/Liberty/Weaver.Case.AR.html

	They both, yes, state that he was a white separatist. They don't
state that he was an Aryan Nations member... just that the FBI was trying to
use him to infiltrate the Aryan Nations. One doesn't have to be a member of
something before recruitment by an undercover (or intelligence) operation to
be useful for infiltrating it - you just have to be someone that that
organization would accept. As a known white separatist, Weaver becoming an
out-and-out racist would be more believable than, say, you or me becoming an
out-and-out racist. Often, those who are already members of such an
organization will be more resistant to turning - more emotional committment,
more watchfullness for attempts to frame/entrap, etcetera.

>A slightly more balanced piece from the New York Times:

>http://eagle.tamu.edu/~carlp/Liberty/Weaver.Case.NYT.html

	Which, again, doesn't give any evidence that he was an actual racist,
as opposed to a white separatist.

>FWIW, the Anti-Defamation League, which I am *well aware* has said sily
>things about militias and skinheads in the past, mentions Weaver in this
>report:

>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/w/weaver.randy/aryan-nations

	I'm glad you mentioned their unreliability; otherwise I would have
had to. This one I haven't been able to check (connection refused), but I
wouldn't believe them in any case if they did claim he was a racist.

>I have also heard Weaver cited quite favorably on the Stormfront list,
>which has repudiated Timothy McVeigh because his friend Terry Nichols has
>a Filipino wife. This makes McVeigh a Race Traitor by association, of
>course.

	Well, yes, a martyr is quite helpful to most movements. Of course
he's going to be cited favorably, so long as they can't find any ideological
problems such as the one you mention with regards to Terry Nichols and
Timothy McVeigh.
	Thank you, you've done my research for me.
	-Allen