Re: "Freedom Knights" are closet censors

[aga <aga@dhp.com>]

On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:04:35 -0800 (PST)
> From: Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com>
> Reply-To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
> To: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org>
> Cc: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org, cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: "Freedom Knights" are closet censors 
> 
> What is "censoring other people's censorship?" Say I argue in favor of the
> CDA. Would you censor me then? Why not? Isn't this censoring others
> censorship?
> 
> I wonder why the so-called "Freedom Knights" are so insecure in their
> beliefs that they will not tolerate a dissenting voice on their mailing 
> list. (Let's forget for the moment that my point in subscribing was to
> disrupt it. That's not the point, is it? "More speech, more speech!")
> 
> -Declan
> Founder, Boycott Freedom Knights society, Washington, DC chapter
> 
> 
> On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Dave Hayes wrote:
> 
> > > The so-called "Freedom Knights" have censored me from their mailing list.
> > > Dave Hayes refuses to let me subscribe and read and contribute to the
> > > discussions there. Why? Simply because he doesn't like what I have to say.
> > > I might criticize him. Truly, censorship says more about the censor than
> > > the censored. 
> > 

No dude, like Dave said, you have to know who to invite to
the Party, since you are responsible for the conduct of all
of your guests.

> > Notice that I now have you arguing -my- side of the argument. Are you
> > so easily controlled? Have you asked yourself why you are that way? 
> > 
> > > John Gilmore, on the other hand, has been much more tolerant. He allows
> > > anyone to subscribe to cypherpunks and only kicked one person off after
> > > months of ranting and off-topic drivel.
> > 

But John Gilmore and his EFF are the epitome of a corrupt
special interest group, and he will now be forever remembered
as one who "pulls-plugs."


> > An ineffective move with symbolic complications that affect no one but
> > him. Why do you support this? 
> > 
> > > And I wonder why the Freedom Knights want to censor certain newsgroups. As
> > > in their FAQ, where they condemn speech they don't like on the alt.cancel
> > > and alt.nocem newsgroups and advise operators not to carry such
> > > groups. 
> > 
> > Ah, you finally got the newsgroups right. Good. 
> > 

alt.cancel and alt.nocem are both censorous newsgroups that
should be quashed.

> > I censor other people's censorship. That is what I do. Call me a
> > censor if you will, but if you were truly in support of free speech
> > you would understand. Since you don't, your cry of wolf demonstrates
> > the depth of your consideration of the subject matter.
> > 
> > > I think it's time to lift the veil from this public Net-menace!
> > 
> > Knock ya-self out.
> > 
> > > Founder, Boycott Freedom Knights society, Washington, DC chapter
> > 
> > You -do- realize, of course, that you have to organize the people
> > and create a large group of opposers to my cause.
> > 
> > That is your destiny. Carry it out.
> > ------
> > Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org 
> > Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet
> > 
> > Nasrudin arrived at an all-comers horse race mounted on the slowest of oxen.
> > Everyone laughed, an ox cannot run. 
> > "But I have seen it, when it was only a calf, running faster than a horse.",
> > said Nasrudin. "So why should it not run faster, now that it is larger?"
> > 

Let's stay on topic here -- John Gilmore is a censorous asshole
for pulling Vulis's plug.  The topic has nothing to do with
the Freedom-Knights.

-a