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Re: Exporting software doesn't mean exporting (was: Re: lp ?)

"Peter D. Junger" writes:
> "Perry E. Metzger" writes:
> : I am starting to have trouble believing you are a lawyer. Are you
> : actually telling me that treaties which explicitly indemnify
> : transshipment customers against local laws are superceeded by lower
> : level laws, in spite of the supremecy clause of the constitution? That
> : might be what the state department would tell you, but I'd have
> : trouble believing even a lobotomized mongoloid judge would let that
> : stand. Treaties are treaties, period.
> What I am telling you, if you would pay attention, is that there is no
> transhipment involved.  The violation of the ITAR consists of
> disclosing information, not shipment.

Given that it is a non-U.S. national disclosing information to a
non-U.S. national, both being outside the U.S.'s borders, with their
only involvement with the U.S. being an incidental traversal of their
communications via U.S. telecoms networks, I would say that it would
be a case where the telecoms treaties would come into play.

> If a Frenchman on vacation in the Riviera shows a copy of PGP sourcecode
> to a German businessman there, that is literally a violation of the

Where the hell did you get that idea?  The ITAR clearly does not apply
to foreigners disclosing things to each other outside the United
States. I've read it and I can't see how it could possibly be so
interpreted. I'm not a lawyer, but this interpretation is so bizarre
as to be almost untenable. I can clearly see that a U.S. person
talking about DES to a foreign person can be a violation under the
language in the regulations, but there is no way on earth to interpret
the regulations as applying to foreigners abroad talking to other
foreigners outside the U.S.

> Don't expect the ITAR to make any sense.  And don't think that you can
> apply logic to the ITAR and get logical results.  It doesn't work that
> way.

I was under the impression, though, that the words meant what they