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Re: In defense, sort of, of Phill Hallam-Baker

Robert Hettinga wrote:

> However, I also think that Phill has this passion for order that sometimes
> borders on the pathological. Maybe because, like Bertrand Russell (who
> Phill and I both admire) says, romanticism, leftism and communism are
> basically feudalism in disguise, and Phill's a closet aristocrat. ;-).
> Maybe not.

Of course socialism is grounded in paternalism. Robert Owen, its founder
was in his day the equivalent of Steve Jobs, an extreemly rich and
merchant who considered that wealth also implied responsibility.

> I think what we see as his blustering trolls on this list come from
> passion. But, I don't think they're trolls at all. I think they show, more
> often than not, his outrage at the way the world's going to go. Which,
> obviously, is *our* way, and not his. He knows very well the power of the
> technology we talk about here, and deep down, I think he knows we're right.

If people want to have a sensible disscussion about technology and
then I think that keeping the discussion grounded in reality is a good

I don't think that the political situation is going in a libertarian 
direction, quite the opposite. I see technology as having greatly
the power of government and that it will be necessary to institute
and balances to make it work. 

I also think that you are being very naive with regards to the threat
by corporations to individual liberties. I see no reason to distinguish 
between corporate intrusions and state intrusions except in one respect.
If we can't find a way to make society work without some form of
the agency that is responsible has to be under democratic control.

I think that unless the case for privacy is put in a way which society
at large accepts then Freeh and the corporations will win. HMOs will be
touting peoples medical records on the open market (many already do),
employers will vet empoloyees on the basis of reports drawing on
on video rentals and so on.

I certainly don't agree with Denning or Sternlight. Sternlight is either
fool or an invention of the NSA. Denning bases her argument against
on hidden sources. I know my experience in the area concerned to be 
significantly greater than hers since if she had operational experience
would say so.