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Re: Re: DVD legal maneuvers (decss and the lawyers) (fwd)
Jim Choate wrote:
> It's different levels of the same animal.
What animal law? Laws are laws, but the classes of laws don't necessarily
> Contract law says what a contract is and who the participants are and what
> the limits of the contract may be - note it doesn't necessarily detail
> what is actualy in the contract/license. In a real sense contract law is
> private law. Copyright law simply says who may define that contract/license
> for a new work. ]
Yeah, so, again, you tell me when the shrinkwrap license becomes a binding
license when I buy MotherFuckerPro V2.3 but don't install it, and rather just
read the disk with a Hex Editor. At what point is the shrinkwrap/installer
license binding if I haven't even installed the software???
> [ You might see fit to give it to a friend, that would be illegal under the
> copyright statutes. Strictly speaking your friend must buy his own copy
> of the software if he wants to use it. You might see fit to put it on two
> or more machines and use them both at the same time, unfortunately the
> contract you agreed to at time of purchase prohibits this.
Yes, I specifically pointed this out in my messages. Quit trying to avoid it.
Installer/Shrinkwrap licenses don't come into effect by my fair use. Fair use
includes reviewing the software, quoting from it, etc. But not copying it, nor
I have never stated that fair use was giving away copies of the software. I
have stated that the copyright on the software and the shrinkwrap/installer
licenses are two separate beasts and that one does not make the other valid.
Further I stated that I don't have to agree to said license and can legally
still read the CD, even without installing it, and use the software.
> What you see fit to do with it is irrelevant. What matters is what you
> agreed to do with it when you accepted the terms of the contract (whether
> is it verbal, written, or simply implied is irrelevant) at time of
> exchange with the agent of the copyright holder.
Again, at what point is there a contract? At what point does it become
binding? Where and WHEN did I ever accept the terms of said contract? It
wasn't on the outside of the box when I bought it. I didn't see any notice
stating there's a software license I have to agree to before purchasing it.
Further, just because some words are printed on the box, that does not
constitute it being a contract I agreed to just because I paid for the box.
Can't answer these can you?
> When you paid the money to take the product from the vendor you agreed
> implicitly to abide by the contract in the box, the vendor after all is
> nothing more than an agent for the copyright holder. ]
I did? When? This is news to me. I never even saw ONE bit of software that
has the license on its outside. When again did I agree to said license once I
> [ Because they haven't found it profitable, pretty obvious answer. As to
> books, the fact is that strictly speaking whether you can actualy loan
> it to a 3rd party (other than you and the copyright holder) is at the
> discretion of the copyright holder, NOT you. You can of course sell your
> privilige to another 3rd party, contract law provides for the transfer
> of rights.
That has to do with copyright law. Again, not the shrinkwrap/installer
license. Quit dancing around it and admit that they're not binding.
> What you OWN is the paper and the right to read it. The actual text of
> the media is still owned by the copyright owner. You are in fact doing
> nothing but borrowing it from them.
I never stated otherwise. But I will submit that it is my right to do with
that paper what I will provided I do not break the copyright. I may read it in
any way I chose.
> I've seen many books, I've probably got some in my library, that say
> explicitly that you can not loan the book. They are usualy cheap
> paperbacks. Should I stumble across any I'll forward the title and
And those are binding how?
> When you buy software, you are NOT buying the software but rather the
> privilige of using the software. What those priviliges may be is at
> the discretion of the owner, not the user. And in this case they aren't
> the same person. ]
Yes, yes, yes, ditto for books, you're buying the paper which has the words you
wish to read, hence the privilege to read those words is at the discretion of
the publisher. But I can fuck the paper up any which way I want and read it
any which way I want. I could read it backwards or randomly or upside down, by
blue, green, red, natural or florescent light. You can't tell me I can't read
it by candle light in a shrinkwrap. It's my right to do with that piece of
paper as I please, provided I DO NOT COPY IT AND DISTRIBUTE THE COPIES TO
OTHERS. But usage is dictated BY ME.
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